Driven 4word
Driven 4word
'If you succeed, the kingdom of God succeeds.' - Sheeba Philip: Part 1
The influential leader we will learn from this month is Sheeba Philip. A graduate of Harvard Business School, Sheeba embarked on a high-performing marketing career, helping to promote brands like Oreo and JCPenney. Although she was raised with the understanding that performance was something to be perfected and refined, Sheeba came to have a more fluid opinion on what a success and a setback are…and why God truly allows us to experience both of these happenings in our lives.
This episode is sponsored by Vision Trust. Vision Trust is an organization that provides essential support in the areas of health, education, and spiritual development to children and adolescents living in poverty around the world. Vision Trust is brimming with female role models who are investing in the next generation of women. Their love is defiant. It stands strong against all odds. And yours can too. Join us in raising up confident young women that embrace their God-given talents to create a better future for us all. Learn more@visiontrust.org slash This is Driven Forward, influential leaders powered by God's will, hosted by me. Jordan Johnstone. The influential leader we will learn from this month is Sheba Phillip, a graduate of Harvard Business School, Sheba embarked on a high performing marketing career helping to promote brands like Oreo and JC Penn. Although she was raised with the understanding that performance was something to be perfected and refined. Sheba came to have a more fluid opinion on what a success and a setback are and why God truly allows us to experience both of these happenings in our lives. Let's listen as Sheba begins her story. All right. Well, thank you so much for being here. Um, and my first question for you might be a little funny, uh, but it's always so much fun to hear what people answer. Um, so who is Sheba Phillip?
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, Jordan, that's a tough<laugh>. No pressure. Well, when you said that the first thing that came to mind is Daughter of God, daughter of that's who I am. That's what defines me. I am his beloved daughter. And I think that relationship is obviously expressed through multiple ways. I mean, I'm an actual daughter to somebody. I am a sister. I am a best friend. I'm a leader. But I think if you ask me who I am at the core, I'm a daughter of the most high. I'm a daughter of God,
Speaker 1:As are probably a lot of the women in our audience right now. Um, so that's kind of a unifying theme for everybody.<laugh>. Now, over the next two episodes, um, we are gonna be discussing successes and setbacks. Mm. So to start off everything, I would kind of love to have you define what does a success and what does a setback mean for you personally?
Speaker 2:Mm. Well, I I think that, uh, you know, we are all on a journey with the Lord mm-hmm.<affirmative> for years in life. And I actually don't define successes and setbacks as I think the typical definition is, which is it's about accolades or hitting some sort of scorecard or metric, or in doing that well, or not doing that one failing. I think everything is ordained by God. Everything has a purpose. And to me, success is are you learning from mistakes? Are you growing? Yes, there's of course the tangible success of hitting it out the park, hitting your business goals, overachieving expectations. But success in my mind is truly, are you on a, a journey with God of learning, of growing, of responding to failures and mistakes in a way that allows you to be further used for him. Failure in my mind, frankly, is someone who doesn't wanna grow, who doesn't wanna learn from the mistakes that they've made who continue to repeat or, or kind of walk around the same tree or around the same kind of desert over and over again because they're not participating, uh, kind of in that journey and that exploration with, with the Lord. Um, but yeah, in the, in the traditional sense, failure is, I think, of course, we all wanna come into our work and have successes as we deem them. We wanna hit the bar. And failure feels sometimes like you're falling short of that. But like I said, I really wanna encourage, you know, those listening to my story that I, I think success and failure is a very black and white definition. I, I think all of it is used by God. All of it is for his purpose. And it's how we respond in those moments of disappointment, in those moments of incredible excitement. Um, it's, it's how we, how we approach that that ultimately makes it a success or a failure.
Speaker 1:Have you always been this, like, out of the box to think about it? Or is this something that you kind of had to learn maybe in a hard way,<laugh> of like, oh, let's not think of it as so black and white. Let's, let's really kind of dive deeper into what could be benefits behind both success and setback?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think it is going through actually a lot of kind of traditional professional success and failure. I mean, I mean, I am not gonna, I I I would say you're right. I have a little bit of a more out of the box point of view, but I'm not immune to the idea of yeah, there's failure. I have run businesses that have not done well. I have lost a job. I've been told I'm not meeting expectation. Those are failures. Those are, that's what we are told are failures. And they feel like failures. They, they, they, they're disappointing and they're hard and they make you cry. Um, yeah. And there are moments of success where, you know, I went to Harvard Business School and I was able to drive multi billion dollar brands and I was able to, you know, really turn around, you know, business situations. Those are all, I would guess successes. Yes, they are. But I think what is undergirded, all of it has been a growing relationship with the Lord. And said, when you ask me that question, who are, who am I? I am not, yes, I am a leader, I am a business person, but I am not defined by those, those successes and those failure. I'm not even defined by what I do. I'm defined by who I am and who I am, daughter of God. And as you become closer and closer in relationship with the Lord, as you understand how much he loves you and how much, or I, for me, how much I've understand, how much he loves me, how much he adores me, how much he sees me. And it's not about what I do, it does relax the constraints around how I see success and failure, and frankly, how it's informed that worldview.
Speaker 1:Hmm. Now did you grow up with, you know, this mindset from your parents of, you know, it's a success or it's a setback? Or did you have parents that were more, Hey, you know what, try failing a little bit<laugh>, you know, um, cuz it's always interesting to me to hear what kind of a dynamic people come from. Because you know, in, in the moment when you're, you know, 10 years old and going, oh, I, you know, I don't wanna fail, you're gonna look back and go, oh, I'm glad I failed<laugh>. I'm glad it was okay for me to fail. So like, what, how did you grow up? Like what was, what was, you know, the, the go-to term when you were at home?
Speaker 2:It's so interesting you ask this question because you'll be surprised when I say it was, did you get an a, I mean, that that was the go-to term. Yeah. Did you get an a I grew up in a South Asian household. I'm Indian American. My parents were immigrants. Uh, my dad came to the us he was 18, uh, with dollars in his pocket, you know, like the, the, the kind of classic immigrant story. And so work ethic and excellence and, you know, having a strong career, making good money, caring for yourself in an independent way. Those were values that he wanted to see in his family because he came out of a place of poverty in India and he came to the US to make a name for himself and his family, and he loved the Lord. I grew up in a Christian home, but it was very much about performance and achievement. And I would argue that so much of that is why I've actually spent emphasized academics and education and grew my career and have done, you know, wonderful things because of that foundation of excellence, of achievement, of stewarding your talents and your gifts really well. So in some ways it's quite the opposite of, of it is definitely was not, it's okay, you failed, you made a mistake, move on. It was definitely, why didn't you get that? A, you only got an A. So I, I grew up in that mentality. So my, my perspective on this truly was informed, um, not by my upbringing frankly, but it was through just life experiences. It, it was through coming out of business school and working in the faith and work space at Redeemer. I, I attend the Redeemer Presbyterian in Keller's church in New York. I was really involved with faith and work, and that was where I started to wrestle with, with what is my identity? What does work look like? What does success and failure look like? And then it was my real, just my personal journey with the Lord just grew over time. But my, my actual roots and where I grew up was all about performance for sure.
Speaker 1:Same<laugh>, that was very similar to how I grew up as well. I mean, I'm the oldest of seven, um, and my mom homeschooled all of us. And so she was very on top of how we were doing academically and, you know, yeah. It, it was very much a, like you said, well, you didn't get an A plus. Yeah, I got an a<laugh> a, you know, that's great, but no. Right. Um, but it, but I do like what you said though about how you have kind of shaped Yes, your viewpoint on this. And I feel like there is a certain, I guess richness when you get that opportunity to you for yourself not carrying on like something that your family's always preached, but like yourself as have actually dug deep and gone, oh no, hey, actually this is, this is how this is. You know, and this is how I think about that. So that I like, I like that.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I appreciate that,<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Well, so for today, we are going to discuss two of the most important successes of your life. Um, and you sent them to me, so I am not, I'm not putting that label on them. Uh, and the first success that you shared was when you made the big<laugh> and somewhat scary decision to diversify your work experience. So what led you to that decision?
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, it was, um, gosh, probably 2010, um, actually no, 2013 I was working at Craft Foods and I was leading, um, the global Oreo business, which was a phenomenal experience and had a tremendous career at Craft, um, doing really well. Uh, in fact, I'm sorry, at the time it was called, the company was called Moda Lease. It was originally craft became Moda Lease. But, you know, I was working in that company and at the same time I was traveling to India a lot for work, actually not because of my personal connection to India, my family connection to India. And when I was in India, I started to see so many, uh, impoverished women and children, and saw the plight of the core. And I thought to myself, okay, this is, this is, this is obviously eye opening. I wanna figure out a way to, uh, use my resources, even volunteer my marketing skills to help organizations that are fighting human trafficking, helping women in children particularly focus in India. I come back, uh, from that trip, and again, I'm at running the global Oreo business. I'm having a pretty fast paced career, uh, loving what I'm doing, but still starting to feel really kinda like, what am I doing? Like, where is my purpose? I've been at this company for 10 years, I love it, but is there something else that I can be doing? And, and my, that backdrop of India and that those visions I saw, or those visuals I saw of those women and children just was sitting with me. And that's when I got an email out of the blue from a friend who said, international Justice Mission, which is a large ngo, uh, Christian ministry based in DC that's fighting modern day human slavery, particularly in the area of human trafficking, working in countries like India. They're looking for a vice president of marketing. They're looking for someone to come in and, you know, help them build their brand. And it was such a scary moment, Jordan, because I felt that call from God. I, I knew I just got back from India. I was struggling with like God, where I know there's something bigger than this work that I'm doing now, but there's also a reason why I have all these skill sets that they're not wasted. So what do I do with it, you know, marketing and my business degree? And that's when I made the courageous decision to say, okay, I'm going to walk away from a high paying career from a fast-paced executive career that could really move me to, you know, CMO of a large publicly traded company, you know, potentially and dive into Christian ministry, something radically different. And I'm proud of myself of that, of that decision. And I do as a success because it's a spiritual success. It, I, I, for me, it was more about the courage to step out in faith with God. I I get this vision of when God calls Peter outta the boat to walk on the water towards him, and as long as his eyes are fixed on Jesus, he can walk forward. The minute he looks at the waves, he starts to drown. And for me, that was that real invitation. Are you gonna step outta the boat? Are you gonna follow me? Not knowing where this will go, but knowing this is an invitation that I'm asking you to consider. And if you do it, you gotta keep your eyes fixed on me. Cause the minute you think about the money you're walking away from, or the uncertainty of working in a ministry, uh, the fear of where's my career gonna go after this? The minute you look at that, you're gonna get back in the boat and you're not gonna leave. And so to me, to me, that was a success where I, I finally got into a level of intimacy with the Lord where I said to myself, I trust him. I trust him, and I'm willing to do this, to take this adventurous step forward with God. So that marked a two year journey, uh, with IgM where I joined them and helped, uh, rebuild their brand and left the world of cookies and Oreo behind. So there we go.<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Wow. I mean, how do you work up the courage to make big changes like that? I mean, it sounds like in, in that situation it was definitely a, all right, I'm gonna trust you God,<laugh>. But I mean, like throughout your life, have you, have you been able to do that so easily? I hate to say easy, cuz I know that wasn't easy, but it sounds like it was just this very natural, all right, we're gonna do this. So is that something you've been able to do throughout your life or was that like just a big God thing in that moment?
Speaker 2:You know, I wanna say it was a God. It was, it was, like I said, a journey. And I, I, I've used that word a lot because it truly is incremental steps, you know? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you think of how, you know, I graduated, I told you from out of a home that was very focused on performance achievements. So it's very early part of my, my career. It was about just the biggest job you can get, the highest paid salary you can get Resume builder. That was, was the focus. But God started to really pull me into this bigger narrative in my mind, or conversation with myself on purpose. Like, what, why, why did God give me the skills has given me? Why has he given me the experiences? What's the bigger story in all of this? What am I, where, where, where are all these gifts and talents leading towards? Cause I know they're from him. Like, I'm not gonna take, it's from him, so what does he want me to do with it? And I started to really wrestle through those questions, through those experiences, like being in faith and work at Redeemer, walking alongside other Christian women that are professionals and grappling through those conversations together, you know, praying through purpose with them and taking little, little steps. So one, it was like maybe one at hbs, I decided to, you know, get involved with the Christian ministry on campus and leading ministry there. When I went to New York and got involved with Faith in Work, I led the faith in work, you know, ministry for marketing and, uh, you know, started to talk about this concept and, and minister to other professionals. Then I started volunteering in, in, in, in the city, you know, outside of my work and kind of using my background to help kids, um, in Washington Heights, uh, you know, know more about Jesus. So it was all these like little, little decisions that made me understand that my life has purpose, that I have been given talents for a reason and I need to steward them well. And so for me, that journey and those little, little decisions of, uh, and that belief system that was growing inside me got me to a place where when I got that email from IgM, I said, okay, I'm ready to take it to the next level and take a step of faith.
Speaker 1:Hmm. Well, the next success that you listed, actually kind of, we'll carry that on a little bit. So it was, you mentioned when you were able to take what you had learn from your years in the private sector and successfully apply that to the nonprofit arena. So kind of keep going with that. Like, like what was that experience like? Like how satisfying was that<laugh> to be able to do that?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I think it was satisfying in the sense that it was an incredible intellectual challenge to say, okay, how do I go from marketing cookies, frankly, to talking about human trafficking and what<affirmative> skills and, um, principles of classical brand marketing can I take across industry? So I think that was really fun to say, okay, you know, marketing is still marketing. Whether you're marketing Oreo cookies, you're talking about a serious issue like human trafficking. You are, you know, marketing a, a car. I mean, they're all, it's the, the, the classics of business and marketing really are universal and transcend categories. And that's what I learned by, I've become a much better marketer frankly, by, because I've been moving across industries and, and taking my skills that I kind of learned in CPG and taking it over, but to other industries and to nonprofits, that was the fun part of it. The hard part of it is that this is kingdom work. Like at the end of the day, I mean, all of the work we do is kingdom work, I should say that, but, but in ministry there's a much added layer of nuance. Like, I've never worked with just Christians, you know, and where, you know, that's a much harder thing to do because let's face it, when you work in a, you know, traditional work environment, let's call it, that's, many people's faiths are there, you can kind of hide a little bit your Christian faith, and you're not under a magnifying lens because people aren't evaluating you because of your faith. But if you're in ministry, that's the first thing people see. It's like, oh, are you, she been a really good Christian, she was a little sippy in that meeting. Or, you know, like, is she really, does she really love Jesus? And like, that's hard. So I had to really reconcile this idea of I know what I believe and I know my, but am I fully expressing it in the way I lead people, do my work, care for my employees? And yes, we should be doing that all the time. That's the lesson I learned, but in ministry, it really, like, that was really what was at the forefront of my mind. And I frankly, to come in ashamed to see, I, I didn't think about it as much before I was working in ministry.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, I'm curious to, to hear what you think about this. Why do you think that God even allows for us to experience success in our life? Like, what do you think his purpose is with it?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that there are tangible things God wants us to do in the world, and he needs us to be successful. I mean, I, I wanna maybe go back to my original point about success and failure. Like I see it more fluid, but I actually believe at the highest order we are called to be excellent at what we do. We are called to be the best of the best. We should be striving to do, to be the best employee, the best leader, the best business person. And in through that journey, yes, you're gonna fail sometimes and you're gonna succeed sometimes. And that's what I'm saying, you gotta let go of that constraint and that black and white view of it. But we are still called to be the best in our spaces and where we're leading. And I, I think Christians of all people need to be excellent. And so why I think God gives us success, frankly, is that we can be an incredible witness to, to God. I mean, to be able to say, I'm an incredible CEO or a marketer or a computer programmer and I'm great at what I do and I'm succeeding, shows that you know, the, the excellence of God that God has put in you and glorifies and honors God. I also think there is a work he wants us to do. And if it, if you succeed, the Kingdom of God succeeds all for the scripture. I mean, let's look at Esther. If Esther was not successful in, you know, uh, going before the king, you know, the Jews would not have been saved. You know, if Joseph did not, was not excellent in the prison, and then when he got to the palace was great at what he did, he would not be able to lead Egypt through a time of famine. The point is, there are actually big goals that God has in the world for us to do, and he needs to show up and be excellent and be successful, but I think the success relies on him. So that would be my third point, is that he gives us success to us, to humbly understand that it never comes from us. It is truly his grace. Yes, we participate, we have a part to play, but we've gotta give it all back to him. And so the beautiful and the dangerous part of success is making sure you stay humble, not prideful, and you understand that everything comes from him.
Speaker 1:Next time on Driven Forward Sheba and I dive into the setback she's encountered in her career and how God strategically used each one to draw her back to him and his plan for her life's journey. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please take a moment to subscribe and leave us a review to let us know what you think to learn more about Forward. You can visit forward women.org. That's the number four w o r d w o m e n.org. Thanks for listening. Many women ask how they can become a member of Forward Journey. Forward is the answer Forward only exists because of the generosity of the forward community. When you give your time, talent, and treasure to forward, you make it possible for more women in the workplace to find their tribe and be empowered to become all God created them to be in work and life. We have a big goal in front of us to empower 10 million Christian women in the workplace to change the world by 2030. And you have a part to play your financial gifts to forward support the ongoing forward operations, support services, digital content like this podcast, as well as our outreach and overall mission journey forward is an easy way for every forward woman to be part of the mission and vision of Forward Through Recurring donations at one of four giving levels. To learn more about Journey and to find your level, go to forward women.org and click on the Join the Journey tab at the top of the homepage.